American ‘poverty’
Friday, 30 June 2006 | 171 readers so far
Americans who are defined by our government as living in poverty enjoy material wealth that, if they had been born in many other nations, would put them solidly in the middle class.
- Forty-six percent of all poor households actually own their own homes. The average home owned by persons classified as poor by the Census Bureau is a three-bedroom house with one-and-a-half baths, a garage, and a porch or patio.
- Seventy-six percent of poor households have air conditioning. By contrast, 30 years ago, only 36 percent of the entire U.S. population enjoyed air conditioning.
- Only 6 percent of poor households are overcrowded. More than two-thirds have more than two rooms per person.
- The average poor American has more living space than the average individual living in Paris, London, Vienna, Athens, and other cities throughout Europe. (These comparisons are to the average citizens in foreign countries, not to those classified as poor.)
- Nearly three-quarters of poor households own a car; 30 percent own two or more cars.
- Ninety-seven percent of poor households have a color television; over half own two or more color televisions.
- Seventy-eight percent have a VCR or DVD player; 62 percent have cable or satellite TV reception.
- Seventy-three percent own microwave ovens, more than half have a stereo, and a third have an automatic dishwasher.
Source: Understanding Poverty in America
What sort of moral obligation, if any, do American taxpayers have to financially support people who have shelter, food, and access to medical care and many of whom have a number of the luxury items in the list above?
Most of those individuals defined as poor are neither physically or mentally handicapped. What do I, as a productive citizen, owe them? What am I getting back in return for my tax dollar “investment.”
In my opinion, the real poverty crisis in America is not nutritional or financial. America’s real problem with poverty centers on the minds of Americans. What are we teaching our children in America’s public school system? Do we teach them appropriate moral values? I don’t think so. Do we teach them sound personal financial management principles? I haven’t seen it. Do we teach them basic economics? Not really, from what I can tell. Do we teach them to be responsible, civically minded citizens? I am dubious.
What we do seem to be teaching our children is that they live in a culture where individual responsibility is dead and the culture of entitlement is their birthright. We’re inculcuating the idea of the state as nanny, caregiver and overlord. We’re pursuing mantras of materialism, hedonism and the herd mentality.
People used to say “God helps those who help themselves.” Today, we think in terms of government cheese. Americans who work hard, start a business or achieve anything tangible are punished by government agencies who interfere, regulate, tax and attempt to micromanage their activities.
Got a problem? The taxpayers will fix it for you, with a little help from your nearest powermongering corrupt politician and a few dollars taken from the most productive members of society. It’s no wonder that American achievers increasingly hide their money offshore or develop elaborate schemes to hide their true wealth.
America has more than enough food to feed itself, as evidenced by the obesity epidemic. Yet our nation is neatly mentally bankrupt. Americans are increasingly lazy, ignorant and apathetic. 34% of us are overweight. We’ve been at war for three years now, and two-thirds of young American adults still do not know where Iraq is on the map. As a nation, we are financially irresponsible in the extreme.
The poverty I worry most about is mental poverty. Without a rich mind, a human being will not prosper, unless propped up by others. We are failing to demand from our citizens that they use their minds. Instead, we are telling them that the government (read productive taxpayers) will take care of them from birth to death. That’s a recipe for disaster.
Go read John Stossel’s Stupid in America. Start worrying. Dont’ forget to thank a government bureaucrat near you for fostering the culture of dependence we live in. Thank your neighbor who continually re-elects the politicians who promise the biggest income redistribution schemes. Thank the Republicans for paying lip service to ideas about smaller government while they grow it larger. Thank the Democrats for insisting that government is the solution to every problem no matter how big or small it may be.
1 June 30th, 2006 at 11:21 am
Freeman says:
As a man who spent the better part of his twentieth year homeless, I was able to recover from a patch of hard luck only with the assistance of both charity and local government. While it is certainly true that certain individuals have been known to exploit the social programs put in place to help them, I can personally attest that such indidividuals are in the minority. Nobody wishes to be poor. And if the working poor in our country enjoy greater material wealth than elsewhere in the world, it can be traced to two factors:
1) The relative disparity in prices between household necessities and material possessions, and
2) A culture that advocates leisure pursuits as a higher priority over ensuring the quality of life for American citizens.
While I understand that poverty will always exist, and I am by NO means an opponent of capitalism, in my life I have come to several key observations. First is that, unfortunately, material purchases over the life of the consumer are far cheaper than monthly upkeep on living expenses. This is not an accident. In a society that blames most social ills on excessive taxation, we Americans are always dying for a tax cut. What we often forget is that without taxation, there can be no services. While a few people benefit off the money saved on capital gains and investment dividends, the rest of America has to suffer with poor roads, schools, housing, and unaffordable health care. Living in Germany, I have seen that, while taxes here are much higher, the median quality of life is far richer and more stable than in the States. There are fewer extremely rich, as well as fewer extremely poor. I don’t oppose the free-market, but when the free-market is allowed to make its gains at the expense of public interest, therein lies a problem for me.
Poverty is a key link in a chain of social ills. Poverty begets itself, and without intervention, sustains. Poverty erodes moral judgement, which begets crime, and therefore poverty is a MORAL, as well as social, issue. The moral mindset does not make provisions for us to withhold OUR moral beneficence based on the moral lapses of the less fortunate. It is not our place to judge the morality of those who need our help. For if we are to withhold aid from the deserving because it is exploited by the undeserving, than truly such a thing is a greater evil than the exploitation which first begat it.
A moral human being cannot abide the suffering of others, the declassification of human beings based on education or economic opportunities. No, government isn’t always the solution, but if the individual will clearly NOT help the poor, then who else remains but government?
I climbed out of the hole because I had certain advantages. I was a white male with 3 years of college, an advanced intellect, and no children or other dependents. Even so, my climb was extremely difficult, and under other circumstances, would have been impossible, even WITH the assistance I received. I defy ANY critic of the poor to spend a year in the position I did, working two jobs and still not being able to afford standard rent or groceries. I worked TWO jobs with no healthcare, living in a halfway house, for almost a year, and I damn near didn’t get out. I challenge anyone to live as I had to, and do better.
The moral lapses of the poor do NOT negate our moral obligation to aid them by whatever means available. Anyone who says otherwise merely betrays their own lack of compassion.
2 June 30th, 2006 at 11:40 am
Trevor says:
I spent a year in Canada a long time ago, working a night maintenance shift at McDonald’s and living in substandard housing designed for poor college students. I had to sublet my room from a rich college student who had found better housing but was stuck in the lease. I survived mostly on macroni and cheese and leftover McDonald’s food that year.
Having been poor, and having collected welfare in the past, I still find it highly morally objectionable that so many people think it is perfectly fine for government to redistribute income by force.
Social safety nets aren’t what I object to; it’s the way we collect funding for them is objectionable. Punishing achievers by demanding that they contribute a greater share of their wealth by percentage than less productive people is wrong any way you look at it.
Furthermore, I’m convinced that the growth of government and resulting decline of self-reliance is leading to an overall decay in our society.
Where are all the fat people coming from if we’re so poor?
3 June 30th, 2006 at 11:51 am
Trevor says:
A question for you Freeman, if I may. You said:
Can you give me a few examples of how life is far richer and more stable in Germany? I am asking because I recently watched a news special that purported to document the plight of “economically disadvantaged” former East Germans. The people they interviewed for the special were all self-pitying out of shape smokers who were sitting in bars and seedy little apartments complaining about how bad they have it while smoking, drinking and playing pool. One of them was a neo-Nazi. I guess he couldn’t find any better group to join.
4 June 30th, 2006 at 10:22 pm
Elizabeth says:
Maybe they’re fat because they eat macaroni and cheese and McDonalds…
If it were up to rich people, there probably wouldn’t be any welfare for people down on their luck like you were, Trevor. That’s why we have to have taxes.
5 June 30th, 2006 at 10:56 pm
Trevor says:
That is an absolutely silly statement Elizabeth. Bill Gates is the richest man in the world and he completely voluntarily started the largest charitable foundation in the world.
I’m sure Bill and Melinda Gates will manage their foundation much more efficiently than federal employees manage the dollars they steal from me.
6 July 1st, 2006 at 4:08 am
Elizabeth says:
Bill Gates is starting a U.S. welfare system? I thought most of that money was going for AIDS and malaria vaccines for Africans, with some for college scholarships for black kids in the U.S.
7 July 1st, 2006 at 4:42 am
SK says:
I’m not rich and I don’t believe in ANY form of welfare. I have read our founding documents and no where do I find that we were to be taxed to support others. In fact, I find the whole process of stealing from those who earn a living to be just that…stealing. Before Welfare, families relied on each other and on charities, not on govt.
8 July 1st, 2006 at 9:41 am
Trevor says:
Bill Gates is providing worldwide welfare, Elizabeth, from his own personal wealth. Why does that seem to upset you so much?
Most of the money is going to global health and education, which makes a hell of a lot more sense than where some of the federal welfare has been going lately.
9 July 1st, 2006 at 2:39 pm
Dale says:
There just aren’t enough starving babies in America. There are too many poor people with TV’s. Not enough suffering homeless seniors , not enough people with bad teeth and polio and the list goes on and on. yaad , yada, yada,
America does a great job taking care of those who cannot take care of themselves. Why is this a problem for you?
There are some things that only big government can do: go to the moon, defend our country, defend those who cannot defend themselves, spread democracy around the world, etc, etc. Who in their right mind says ” Its okay to spend a few trillion in Iraq to set them free but not one penny for poor people in the US”?
Is this because there are no poor people in Iraq so this is a good idea? or is it because we wish to create a free people who can then live a life scrabbling for food , shelter, and clothing; oh, a noble struggle is a blessing? Perhaps we care more about Iraqi people than our own countrymen.
Ah yes, force democracy on the world but do not force me to pay taxes to help poor people . That is an honorable path for Americans. Not.
10 July 1st, 2006 at 3:25 pm
Trevor says:
Dale,
There are NO babies starving in America, unless you count those rare cases where parents intentionally starve children. This is not because of government it is because of the will of the people of the United States. You could immediately remove all government welfare programs in the United States today and no one would starve unless they wanted too.
There is nothing the government can do that a private organization cannot do. A private organization just put a spaceship into outer earth orbit for less than ten million dollars. That’s a fraction of what our inefficient government could do it for.
I don’t mind helping people out when they are in need. I just don’t want it done involuntarily and inefficiently by other people who claim to be “representing” me. I don’t feel government represents me. I don’t want to force democracy on the world. I volunteered to serve again after ten years out, because as inefficient as government is, I see the biggest threat to me in the 21st century being the ideological war between radical Muslims and everyone else.
I don’t want to be randomly struck down by religious fanaticism.
You and I argue using words. Religious fanatics do not.
And so I find myself in an imperfect Army managed by an inefficient government, fighting a war of ideas where the prize is my life and freedom.
You started the post by saying America does a great job of taking care of those who cannot take care of themselves. I demand a higher standard. America does an inefficient job and she’s going to bankrupt herself if we don’t raise the bar and cut the pork.
11 July 1st, 2006 at 4:04 pm
Elizabeth says:
Some facts:
1. Welfare barely exists anymore after Clinton’s welfare reforms.
2. Welfare has always been a very small percentage of the federal budget, and is even smaller today–much less than one percent I believe (I’ll check).
3. Bill Gates may have billions, but the U.S. government spends billions each month in Iraq. There is no comparison between the wealth of Bill Gates and the wealth of the U.S. government. Bill Gates, Warren Buffet and a couple of other super rich people can’t do what government does (or doesn’t) do. It’s not possible. Do you think Bill Gates should take over Social Security, or Medicare? These are systems serving millions of people…we have offices staffed by hundreds sorting out the claims and benefits…I don’t think Bill Gates is interested in taking over that sort of thing…or are you proposing we do away with Social Security and Medicare too?
12 July 1st, 2006 at 4:11 pm
Elizabeth says:
SK: The Constitution begins with the words: “We, the People of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defence, PROMOTE THE GENERAL WELFARE(capitals added for emphasis), and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.”
13 July 1st, 2006 at 4:13 pm
Elizabeth says:
Trevor: Are you aware that people starved to death in this country during the Great Depression? I guess it was because they didn’t work hard enough….
14 July 1st, 2006 at 4:22 pm
Trevor says:
Elizabeth,
The U.S. government has no wealth. It produces nothing. It’s not a business. Everything it does is funded by individauls. I am one of those individuals.
I want my money used more wisely, whether it is in Iraq, or back at home. I am furious about the hundreds of thousands of dollars I think I’ve seen wasted here by arrogant government employees back in Washington who make arbitrary decisions while having no clue how they affect us on the ground. Meanwhile the world’s only superpower has been here three years and we can’t even keep the power on in the PX food court of our embassy.
If Bill Gates ran for political office, I would take a long hard look at his platform and consider voting for him. I think you are right though - Bill Gates realizes he can accomplish more in his life outside of government than inside of government. He’s a practical man, unlike most bureaucrats and cheerleaders for more big government.
I would LOVE to do away with Social Security - it is nothing more than a Ponzi scheme. Those are illegal for private citizens, and they should off limits for government. Medicare is a program for people who do not adequately prepare for retirement. I would like to see a private alternative that avoids the massive bureaucracy involved in Medicare. Eventually I would like to see Medicare disappear. Medicare is a huge oppotunity for dishonest doctors and medical institutions to commit fraud, and it happens all the time.
If we could get rid of Social Security, I would give up my claim to ALL benefits from it, even though that would mean I would be giving up thousands and thousands of dollars that I have paid in since I started working in the food service industry at 14. It would be worth it to see that blight disappear forever.
15 July 1st, 2006 at 4:33 pm
Trevor says:
Elizabeth,
Are you aware that many economists feel that the Great Depression was caused by excessive government interventionism in free markets? I guess it was because government isn’t the solution to every problem…
16 July 1st, 2006 at 5:29 pm
Elizabeth says:
Trevor: Sure, there’s massive fraud in Medicaid (not sure about Medicare). There’s also massive fraud in private health care businesses. I am very acquainted with this, because I work in health care. You think people only rip off the government? Right now, I am in the middle of investigating a complaint against a private hospital by someone who paid for his own medical care. He was admitted involuntarily to the psychiatric unit. This, I believe, was a violation of his rights, as he was not an immediate danger to himself or others,nor did he have a violent history. I am going to submit my report to the GOVERNMENT AGENCY to whom he complained and they are going to pay me for my work with TAX DOLLARS. So, an example of the government standing up for individual rights, and protecting people from greedy businesses (yes, a private hospital is a business!). Would you like to do away with these government regulatory functions? Why is it that you think corporations and businesses are so pure, and government is so innately evil? Is it possible that you limit yourself to reading stuff produced by think tanks and authors who are representing the interests of these corporations and businesses?
17 July 1st, 2006 at 8:03 pm
Trevor says:
I really don’t think I’ve ever said that corporations are pure. In fact, I complain about corporations I have issues with on this blog. Nor do I maintain or advertise that I think government is innately evil. I know many decent, honest, hard-working government employees. In fact, I am one of them.
The problem I have with government is that there is too much of it. Government has a monopoly on force which is why it should be as limited as possible.
I can fight a company that screws me over in court. It’s a lot harder to fight the government. Just ask anyone who has had their life ruined by the DEA, the IRS or some other alphabet soup agency.
18 July 1st, 2006 at 8:44 pm
Elizabeth says:
Hmm, I can’t think of anyone I know who had their life ruined by the DEA…but maybe I just don’t hang out with those type of people…
Of course government has a lot of power–that’s why the U.S. system was devised as a federal system, with checks and balances between the different branches of government. Some people, like GW Bush and his corporate cronies, don’t like these checks and balances, and want the Executive branch to have all the power…but you know that already…
Medicare is for people who didn’t plan for retirement? Hmm. I read a blog recently in which a woman described how her son contracted a rare infection, was in the hospital for weeks, died anyway, but the hospital billed his estate for $500,000. So: If I don’t save up enough to: Pay my living expenses in old age, plus put away half a million for a hospitalization I might need, not to mention prescription drugs that might prevent hospitalization (which can be $500-$700 per month) or how about thousands of dollars for chemotherapy I might need to treat cancer…etc etc. I’m just irresponsible? I should suffer and die before my time because I didn’t save up millions for the medical care I hoped I wouldn’t need, trying to live a healthy life, but I got cancer or a rare infection anyway?
Trevor: Have you ever paid for your own health insurance? Tell the truth. I pay $540 per month for health insurance, and it is not 100 percent coverage. If I was 20 years older, I’d be paying at least $700 or $800 per month for health insurance. You have a GOVERNMENT job and correct me if I’m wrong, you get free health care. I am self-employed–I work for a small business, plus have a small business of my own–saving taxpayers money by being efficient, and how am I rewarded? By having to pay $540 per month for health coverage. I’m looking forward to the day when I can get Medicare, and I think I will deserve it when that day comes. Meanwhile–what does that $540 go for? Much of it goes for the PROFIT of the health insurance company–not to pay actual costs! This benefits a few corporate officers and some shareholders and NO ONE ELSE. Is that really “efficiency”?
19 July 1st, 2006 at 9:48 pm
Dale says:
In San Francisco, thousands of people live in rv’s and campers underneath the bridges and highway overpasses. Their children go to school everyday while both mom and dad go to work. Most of the fathers have two jobs. They don’t have home’s. They cannot afford them. Some of them are migrants , some are not.
Perhaps they are living the life that Trevor envisions: they are working to their mental and physical abilities; they have food and clothing and shelter of a sort. They cannot afford homes because they are not paid enough money.
I remember when the first Mayor Daley was arguing with developers about putting up welfare housing and developing low income housing. The developers argued that the land itself was worth so much money that earmarking this for the poor was a travesty. Mayor Daley asked them: who do ya think is gonna clean your damn office buildings and work in your damn restaurants if not the poor? And where will these poor people live, the suburbs? Ya thinkthey gonna commute everyday for minimum wage?
Now some people would say that wages would rise to fill the need for hashslingers, dishwashers, maids, and rest room cleaners. But you know that the one thing the wealthy cannot stomach is paying more money for the same job that will result in increasing costs and increasing the price of their goods. So low income housing won, meals costs were controlled, the poor working people stayed in Chicago.
My point is that just because people are poor does not mean they are lazy or shiftless. Millions of Americans work for minmum wages. A wage increase for them is not a trivial event.
When those very same working people run into problems in life and need help, I am in favor of governmental programs to do that.
We have the richest poor people for the lowest possible cost. Unless someone can point to a country who does it better, I stand by the American way.
We have no starving babies in America that I know of. The Great Society of LBJ is here and it is good. And if I need to choose between Iraq and the American homeless, I choose America. If I need to choose between aid to Israel and American homeless, I choose America. And if I need to choose between tax breaks to the wealthy and American homeless, I still choose the homeless in America.
20 July 1st, 2006 at 10:20 pm
Trevor says:
The U.S. system has evolved into what it is. The Federalists barely won the argument back in the early days of this country. I wonder if we would be better or worse off if the anti-federalists had won. Government has way too much power. GW Bush isn’t doing anything Clinton or all the Presidents going back at least to Lincoln haven’t been doing. Every one of them has grown government power and added new and in my opinion unncessary bureaucracies to the alphabet soup of agencies.
The son got medical treatment despite not having health insurance didn’t he? And so can any person who walks into an emergency room. Whether or not you get the best doctor in the field associated with any particular health problems you might have is largely up to you and your level of determination. Or those who act as your advocates. So my advice would be choose the people you surround yourself with carefully and work hard to get an education and build quality relationships. Be realistic with yourself - poor people get inferior medical treatment because they are less educated, less likely to be able to negotiate and make informed decisions than their better educated and wealthier fellow citizens. That’s the way it will always be. Your dream communist society will never exist because some people will always be more intelligent or more determined or more aggressive or more beautiful. Those people will always rise to the top.
I am in the National Guard, Elizabeth. That means I am a weekend warrior. My full time civilian profession is managing information technology. I work for a private firm that pays its own health insurance from a private account. That is part of my negotiated benefits package. So YES, I have paid for my own health insurance.
My GOVERNMENT job is dangerous. My GOVERNMENT job is thankless. My government job requires working hours and conditions that would violate most state’s labor laws. My GOVERNMENT job comes with 100% mediocre healthcare. The only time I can count on competent health care in the military is if I need trauma surgery. They are equipped for that.
If I get some wasting disease, they’ll throw me out and pay me a stipend that isn’t enough to survive on. I will then find myself in the same shoes as the kid you mentioned earlier, who died half a million in debt. The difference between you and I is that I don’t believe more government will make anything better, because I’ve spent five years in active government service over the last two decades of my life, and the only thing you can count on in government service is that everything will be equally medicore. Most of the competent people in government service don’t stay long enough to make a huge impact because of the nature of the beast. The competent idealists who make a career out federal service usually spend it fighting with all the scammers they work with and often die bitter, disillusioned alcholics (with 100% mediocre medical coverage).
As a self-employed businessperson, you should know that the ultimate goal of any business is to make a profit because without profit there is no business. If you want to change the world for the better maybe you should get government out of health care. They add about 40-50% to the cost of every medical facility visit you make, last time I researched the topic. It may be even higher by now.
I’m glad you are looking forward to the mediocrity provided by Medicare. Good luck with all that. I’m sure you’ll be very pleased with the Mediocre Old Folk’s Home choices you get, assuming the program still exists in its present form when you become eligible…
21 July 1st, 2006 at 10:43 pm
Trevor says:
I would suggest to these people that they move somewhere like North Georgia, where housing is still affordable, assuming they are legally living in this country in the first place.
They cannot afford homes because California, and San Franscisco in particular, are overgoverned and therefore ridiculously expensive to live in. I can’t afford a home in San Francisco either. Nor would I be likely to live anywhere inside the socialist state of California. Too many rules.
We switched rather suddenly from San Francisco to Chicago, I think.
I don’t know what the wealthy will stomach or what that won’t since I’m not wealthy. I do know that overmanagement kills businesses. Ask someone from Detroit whether the unions and big government have improved their lives. That city is half empty - a ghost town.
I agree 100% with this statement. I have earned minimum wage before, and I was neither lazy nore stupid. My best advice to minimum wage earners is to take any opportunity you can get for education. Choose something you think you can be good at and like and get a specialized education. Experts do not make minimum wage. The more rare and in demand your skillset is, the more you will make. That’s completely free advice that will work if you follow it for just a few years. Watch your salary climb as you make good educational choices. It will be very hard and you will often be tired after working and going to school in the same day.
Whereas I would support those same programs if they were privately run. Government does a terrible job with such programs, on the whole. I might also support government/corporate hybrids, if the appropriate accountability was in place. That’s the second biggest problem I have with government - lack of accountability. The biggest problem I have with government is that they gather revenues by force.
This is essentailly the reason why I immigrated back to the United States after trying my native Canada for a while. The U.S. is freer and more economically healthy. However, that doesn’t mean I’m satisfied. I want more freedom and a more libertarian oriented society.
Were there starving babies before LBJ? I must admit he was before my time. I’m more concerned about We the People in 2006 right now. I’m concerned about our eroding personal liberty, our financial irresponsibility and the deteroriating education system.
I’ll agree with all but the last. That’s because I believe tax breaks actually spur the economy and I also believe that uneven taxes are immoral. If you tax a man who makes 1,000 a month at 10% you must tax the man who makes 10,000 a month at the same rate or you are a thief. Maybe I’ll find some homeless people to interview in Atlanta next year if I have time, and see what they have to say about the state of the nation. Perhaps I’ll get some good quotes about the stinking filthy rich. Maybe I can get some interviews with rich people to contrast those with too.
22 July 2nd, 2006 at 12:01 am
Elizabeth says:
Trevor: When I am eligible for Medicare, I will have the same doctors (or their equivalent) that I do now, because doctors who accept private insurance almost always also accept Medicare. There are some doctors who don’t accept any insurance. In fact two of my doctors don’t accept insurance–not because of dissatisfaction with the government/Medicare, but because of dissatisfaction with for-profit health insurers who kept giving them the run-around and ripping them off. Or do you refer to that as “efficiency”?
“The son got medical treatment despite not having health insurance didn’t he? And so can any person who walks into an emergency room.”
Actually, he had health insurance, which I think paid for half the total bill now that I think about it. So maybe it was only $250,000 that his estate was billed. As for emergency rooms–they don’t do chemotherapy, deliver babies, perform dialysis, perform cardiac by-pass operations, provide psychotherapy, do skin grafts, perform rehabilitation for the disabled/amputees, etc., etc., etc. Evidently you are a very lucky person who has had no experience with serious medical illness, if you think “medical care” is provided in emergency rooms. ERs provide assessment and emergency trauma care.
23 July 2nd, 2006 at 3:27 am
Millionaire Richard Quick says:
Bravo, truthteller!
Here’s a mantra my liberal friends can use to end poverty: GET A JOB!
That, or use any one of the 101 ways to get rich posted at richardquick.blogspot.com
Anyone can get rich in this great country. Anyone.
btw… great blog!
Richard Quick, Esq.
Founder
National Association for the Advancement of Wealthy People
24 July 2nd, 2006 at 11:34 am
Trevor says:
That\’s great Elizabeth. Your last argument finally convinced me!
I should help pay your medical bills because I am partially responsible when you lose your job, get pregnant, get run over by a train, go crazy or get lung cancer from smoking for 30 years.
Socialism is the way to go.
It\’s what has made our children the best educated and sharpest students on the planet, and it will ensure that America remains a shining beacon of light surrounded by a sea of darkness well into the 22nd century. Yeah, that\’s the ticket!
I\’m a human being with a conscience, a soul and a desire to help out those in need, but our current system asks more of me than is fair. It\’s broken and we need to fix it.
25 July 2nd, 2006 at 4:51 pm
Elizabeth says:
Trevor, your last comment made absolutely no sense whatsoever. Is it possible you thought I was talking about Medicaid, not Medicare? I’m not likely to get pregnant, “lose my job,” or get run over by a train by the time I qualify for Medicare at 67.
Trevor, it’s not people’s fault if they go crazy. I’m not sure whether this comment betrays a vast ignorance on your part or some type of callousness and amorality or both.
26 July 2nd, 2006 at 5:18 pm
Trevor says:
Elizabeth,
You are the one who hijacked my original post and made it all about Medicaid and Medicare. If you go back and reread, you’ll notice the original blog entry mentions neither. I am neither ignorant or callous, I am merely weary of paying other people’s way through life and somewhat tired of do gooders who insist that all their projects should be funded by American taxpayers.
When I said YOU I meant anyone sucking the government teat, not YOU Elizabeth. Medicare and Medicaid are both huge sources of fraud, waste and abuse.
Source: Top 10 Examples of Government Waste
We can talk about reform or elimination of government programs all you want here on this blog. I’m open to either idea. What I’m not interested in is pandering to people who want MORE government funded by me.
Am I making sense now?
27 July 3rd, 2006 at 12:39 am
Elizabeth says:
Trevor, I would never say that Medicare or other government programs don’t need to be reformed. Actually, what they need is more oversight and accountability. Who is going to do that? 1. citizens–I reported Medicare fraud and the clinic had to repay the federal government $700,00– and 2. government agencies like the GAO, or state attorney generals, state health departments, or Congress. Checks and Balances! Of course, if there were more people like me who took the initiative to report fraud, maybe those oversight bodies would be able to do more than they do…but what you were advocating Trevor, is getting rid of Medicare altogether. By the way–have you told your parents you think they don’t deserve Medicare?
28 July 3rd, 2006 at 1:42 am
SK says:
Yes, I’ve read those words. And yet, I still find nothing to support taking money from one man to support another. You cannot read our founding documents without asking what the words were intended to mean, based on what they were trying to accomplish at that time. I can find nothing that would imply they would have supported welfare or any other social program. They wanted a place where you could become anything, based on your achievements WITHOUT the govt taking your property or the money you earned.
29 July 3rd, 2006 at 11:41 am
Trevor says:
I’ve told my parents many times that government is too big and needs to be slimmed down.
Have you told your neighbors you support taking money away from them and redistrbuting it to other people?
30 July 3rd, 2006 at 8:07 pm
Elizabeth says:
Hate to tell you this, Trevor, but I do not know one single person who does not support the idea of Medicare and Social Security. You’re in a tiny minority.
31 July 3rd, 2006 at 10:57 pm
Trevor says:
Elizabeth,
You might want to expand your social circles a bit. While I realize that I’m probably in a numerical minority, the people who fought the Revolutionary War were also a minority.
I’m not in the least discouraged to find myself taking a less than populist position. In fact, I expect that most of my positions will never fit the mainstream. I’m thankful for that.
32 May 15th, 2008 at 1:54 pm
Bernie says:
Trevor:
I hope that you are still out there spreading the seemingly, but unbelieveably (but not in this liberal, upside down, nutty word we live in) unpopular word now that it is 2008 and these posts were from 2006.
Here is MY website:
http://www.socialsecurityisascam.com
Elizabeth (If you are still out there):
PLEASE don’t tell me that when you said that in the Constitution it says “PROMOTE THE GENERAL WELFARE(capitals added for emphasis)” that you mean that “welfare” is CONSTITUTIONAL?!?!?!
If that is what you meant,
HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!!