Are we in the wrong place?
Sunday, 18 June 2006 | 127 readers so far
Many argue that Iraq had nothing to do with terrorism, and that the invasion and our current efforts are therefore unjustified. I’ll ignore Saddam’s history of attacking and invading his neighbors for the moment and point out that Iraq is the epicenter of global terrorism at the moment - that according to Osama Bin Laden.
Just as the Iraqi parliament broke the political stalemate, Osama bin Laden released his latest speech. Walid Phares classifies bin Laden’s speech as the “State of Jihad.” Dr. Phares points out “the document provide guidelines and vision to the followers across the continents: A call for mega-terrorism and a fiery delivery of a bloody war in all directions. Not one single civilization and religion got away from Usama’s grapes of wrath: Muslim moderates, Shiites, Christian Catholics, Protestants and Orthodox; Jews, Hindus, Buddhists and Atheists as well. Europeans, Chinese, Indians, Semites, Africans and others were all deciphered as Kuffars, infidels.”
Bin Laden himself says that defeat in Iraq is defeat for everyone he is against. That’s a long list indeed.
al-Qaeda, however, recognizes how a stable Iraq threatens the plan to establish a regional and ultimately global Islamist caliphate. Note how bin Laden fears the establishment of democratic institutions, media outlets and U.S. basing in the region. For these reasons, bin Laden calls Iraq the “epicentre of these wars” and Zawahiri calls it “the place for the greatest battle of Islam in this era.”
A global Islamist caliphate, if successful, would mean no tolerance of Muslim moderates, Shiites, Christian Catholics, Protestants and Orthodox; Jews, Hindus, Buddhists and Atheists, agonistics, Wiccans and many, many more. The seat of the fantasied caliphate, according to what I’m reading, would be in Baghdad.
1 June 18th, 2006 at 12:39 pm
Elizabeth says:
Trevor: Iraq became the epicenter BECAUSE we invaded it.
2 June 18th, 2006 at 2:08 pm
Trevor says:
Are you saying that if we had not invaded Iraq, the fundamentalist jihadis would not be planning on Baghdad as their fantasy caliphate’s capital city? That they would have chosen another city? New York City perhaps?
3 June 18th, 2006 at 4:46 pm
Dale says:
I agree with Elizabeth.
Iraq was a fall guy in the war on terror. Now we have Syria and Iran adopting the Bush approach of “fighting them there ( in Iraq) so we don’t have to fight them here ( in Syria/Iran)”
Let us hope they do not adopt his other more serious approach.
Or even the ” we will allow no regional competitors” approach.
In any case, we cannot leave Iraq anytime soon.
4 June 18th, 2006 at 6:20 pm
Green says:
I was of the same opinion as Dale and Elizibeth but after I read this…
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,199757,00.html#3
Now, I’m not so sure…
5 June 18th, 2006 at 8:38 pm
Elizabeth says:
I skimmed the article Green mentioned. I am absolutely sure Saddam was looking for friends wherever he could get them, after the U.S. repelled his invasion of Kuwait. “the enemy of my enemy is my friend.” But, that does not mean Saddam was interested in establishing an Islamic caliphate. In an Islamic caliphate, he would have had no standing. He isn’t an imam; he was a secular dictator.
6 June 19th, 2006 at 12:30 am
Green says:
I’ve got little or no interest in the Caliphate arguement. Mainly becasue it is a pipedream. Look at the trouble in assemblying the EU under a loose-knit supervisory group. My whole point is that terror threat is larger than Bin Laden and Co. Much the same way we found Colombian drug lords using tactics and materials they gained from the Provincial IRA in the mid-80’s we must be willing to go after those countries that share a hatred of the west with Al-Qeada and enter intp cooperative agreements with such organizations. I didn’t believe that Saddam had such a relationship with AQ when we invaded for the same reasons that mentioned. Therefore, I didn’t agree with the course of action we took. But with more and more information arising I’d have to say that there maybe something there. Of course, you’re talking about the same guy that wanted to go into Sudan, Syria, and Lebanon instead of Iraq because I believed that those countires had a greater amount of direct involvement with AQ.
7 June 19th, 2006 at 1:35 am
Trevor says:
Green,
People pooh pooh lots of far fetched ideas like the Caliphate. I’m sure lots of British were doing the same thing while the American Revolution took place, all the way up until independence was won.
Elizabeth,
Saddam may have been secular but he also knew how to seize the day and use “Allah” in his power gathering struggle. He is the one who added that name into the Iraqi flag. You don’t have to be devout to take advantage of people’s religious fervor.
Saddam would have been happy to lead a caliphate, as long as it meant more power for Saddam. Egomaniacs are like that. Hell, the man still thinks he is in charge - he says so in court.
Dale,
Perhaps we could have done things differently. Saddam did have a horrible track record of murder. Iraq would certainly have continued stirring up trouble regionally if not globally where possible. Wasn’t Saddam paying family members of Palestinian murder bombers? I wish it had been done differently, but we’re here for the duration now, unless we (America and allies) prove to be more colossally stupid than I think we are, which is just as possible as any other potential outcome, I suppose.
8 June 19th, 2006 at 3:55 am
Elizabeth says:
This may be somewhat tangential…but there was in fact an Islamic Caliphate through a great deal of history. Of course it wasn’t an “Islamist” Caliphate. The rulers were in fact fairly tolerant for their time.
For someone to create an Islamist “Caliphate” with no freedoms as Trevor describes, they would need: 1. a desperate population, as occurred in Afghanistan after the Soviets left and we ignored Afghanistan’s needs, hence leading to the Taliban, and 2. The ability to crack down brutally on people. Of course that is possible, but the larger an area you try to crack down on, the less likely you are to succeed. Thus I do not fear an Islamist Caliphate in the future.