scribblings from a deist transhumanist libertarian minarchist citizen soldier

Flying around wondering about secret prisons

I sometimes have to fly places for business reasons. This is a highly distasteful part of my life, because I hate the TSA with a passion. It embodies the height of government arrogance and stupidity.

I cite as an example of this idiocy the new signs in the Atlanta airport which indicate severe penalties for joking about bombs and/or terrorism. The colorful new signs are all over near the security checkpoint. I would have taken a picture of the signs, but that is probably considered a crime as well.

Let us ask ourselves — are real terrorists likely to skip through the airport laughing and telling bomb jokes? Do human monsters who will be soon be boarding the plane with evil intent walk toward that plane while loudly recounting humorous anecdotes about that time in Scotland when they took over a plane using only a book of strike anywhere matches and a D-cup sized bra from Victoria’s Secret.

Anyhow, the Transportation Security Authority does nothing to make me feel secure. And signs warning travelers that inappropriate jokes will result in imprisonment remind me that increasingly, the United States is NOT the land of the free. My guess is that most people who get belligerent and make inappropriate statements while moving through security are doing so because security is a joke. Some of them may be rebelling against being treated in a way that is discourteous. Others may simply feel offended by the fact that compliance with modern American airport security is more about compliance than it is about security.

I digress though. This post isn’t about the TSA.

This post is mainly about the gentlemen I sat next to on the plane last night. He is a former soldier who believes that the U.S. military routinely tortures people to death. I politely told this gentleman that if I ever had any proof of such activity taking place with official sanction from a general level officer, I would immediately request a dismissal from the remainder of my contract to serve my state and nation.

I want to know, am I completely in the dark? Are there secret programs where we torture human beings by cutting their off fingers and shoving high pressure water pipes up their asses and subjecting them to electric shocks in senstive places? I’m sure we’ve had isolated incidents. But I believe that the U.S. military would punish such activity appropriately, once it was discovered. I don’t believe the vast majority of U.S. troops would willingly participate in such events as torture and murder.

The U.S. is maintaining an archipelago of prisons around the world, many of them secret prisons, into which people are being literally disappeared, held in indefinite, incommunicado detention without access to lawyers or a judicial system or to their families”

–William Schulz, Director, Amnesty International USA

Physical torture is inappropriate for civilized human beings to inflict on other humans and should not be an acceptable form of extracting information. If our Constitution protects citizens from cruel and unusual punishment, then it should also protect our enemies from the same thing.

You cannot advertise yourself as the home of the free and the land of the brave if your government supports secret prisons, illicit torture and disappearing people. It would be morally wrong to support such a government, anywhere in the world.

Killing in self-defense is acceptable. Murdering and torturing human beings, even the ones who want to murder and torture you, is not.

I know my government is stupid enough to muck up the process of providing security to civilian travelers by treating them all like a million herd animals, but I do not believe my government is evil enough to systematically create secret prisons where it tortures and kills prisoners with the blessing of general level officers.

What do you believe?

Update: Mustang has some good comments over at Social Sense on this issue. According to the stats he publishes from Rueters, the percentage of credible torture allegations being investigated that resulted from 28,000 interrogations is 10. That’s a percentage of less than .035 and doesn’t indicate any type of systemic or officially supported prisoner abuse.

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  • patrick stone
    "I would favor torture techniques (even to death) for individuals known to have information regarding eminent danger to our national security. "

    Is that a joke? If we hate terrorists so much, why do we insist on acting like them?

    Sorry, your logic eludes me.
  • pissedbroad
    aha.
    i do not capitalize for two reasons.
    1. i'm lazy.
    2. it looks like my voice sounds.
    xxxooo
  • I strongly disagree with you CL. Torturing the enemy makes you the same as him. I like to think we have a more civilized and therefore meritorious society.

    Cultures and philosophies that promote torture, murder, etc. are not palatable and I will fight them.

    I don't watch much TV. No time. Life it too short.

    If the U.S. does have organized torture/murder facilities I will do everything in my power to ensure they are dismantled and outlawed.
  • cl
    I would favor torture techniques (even to death) for individuals known to have information regarding eminent danger to our national security. However, I don't think that torturing someone for the location of Usama Bin Laden is reasonable.

    If you watch the TV show 24, there was an underground D.O.D. class 3 detention facility on one of the shows. Sure it is TV, but the ideas come from somewhere. I wouldn't be surprised if the U.S. had such facilities.
  • I don't know if Patrick's comment has any merit or not. Now that I'm retired from the Corps, I have no "sources" who are in a position to say one way or the other. Like Trevor, I hope it isn't true. Logically, I cannot imagine the Saudi Government's willingness to torture for the US CIA because the Saudis are the principal source of funding for every terrorist (Wahabbist) group in the world. Why would they torture one of their own slime? Of course, I keep asking why any of the royal family would be so welcome to visit at the President's house, too. Hell, I can't even get an invite to those digs and I voted for him.
  • For the record, I disagree with such methods. Handing someone over to be tortured or murdered by another government is despicable and morally repugnant to me, and is the equivalent of doing it yourself.

    The U.S. legal system punishes individuals who passively participate in a murder or stand by and allow it to happen, and it should punish government officials in the exact same manner when they do the same thing.

    I will not support such activity by any government, especially mine.
  • patrick stone
    From what I've read, we ship detainees off to other countries like Saudi Arabia to have them tortured so our hands stay (technically) clean. Most of the rest of the world is wise to our ways which is why you have Amnesty International denouncing our methods while, seemingly, there is no (or little) documented torture going on.
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