scribblings from a deist transhumanist libertarian minarchist citizen soldier
Hezbollah is insane
Posted by
Trevor in
under other on
Jul 15th, 2006 |
21 responses |
I’ve been so busy this week I haven’t had much time to follow what’s happening in nearby Isreal, Palestine and Lebanon, but I know it’s all pretty bad.
I wish the killing would stop, but that is unlikely until the mentality of “push the Jews into the sea” has been relegated to the trash dump of history’s bad ideas.
Isreal is the economic and military powerhouse in the region. They have the mailed fist and they are using it. I fail to understand why Hezbollah keeps kicking at the nest of hornets when they have been stung so hard and so often.
This thing could easily escalate into a massive regional conflict. As in the past, Isreal would likely dominate in any large military action.
Iran’s role in the current events bears careful watching.
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Trevor, do you ever read Reason magazine–I’m pretty sure it’s a libertarian publication. They ran an interview with a Hezbollah politician a couple of years ago:
http://www.reason.com/interviews/hizbollah.shtml
Actually, Hezbollah eventually defeated Israel’s occupation of Lebanon. It’s true that Israel has the weapons and military might, but so do we, and yet victory over the insurgents in Iraq remains elusive for us..the home team always has an advantage…
I read the interview, and the Hezbollah members sounds pretty reasonable. However, his group’s actions speak a lot louder than his words.
The “home team advantage” in Iraq point you make is true. However, when you consider the “home team” keeps killing fellow citizens and blowing things up instead of trying to play ball, it’s a pretty stupid home team, if you ask me.
A bunch of murdering thuggish idiots, in fact.
Let’s kidnap the Olympic Comittee – that will make Iraq better
Let’s blow up people in a market – that will make Iraq better
Let’s incite Shias against Sunnis and Sunnis against Shias – that will make Iraq better
Way to go home team.
The real home team is the elected Iraqi government, and they are under attack from a bunch of retarded barbarians.
The situation in Isreal I know less about. I can’t imagine that the United States would feel much different though if Mexico kept launching missile attacks and kidnapping people in the border area.
Nor do I think India feels much different about Kashmir and the recent attacks in Mumbai (Bombay).
I am sorry to report this but the US and Iraq are not the only ones who are interested in the Iraqi outcome. First we have Israel, then we have Iran, then we have Syria,then we have religious clerics; and then we have Al Qaeda.
Any one of these groups has a valid reason for either a: making the US look incompetent; b: keeping the US busy in Iraq and drawing us into more conflict; c:making sure we do not prematurely leave; and d:taunting the US to over react.
Just because the news in Iraq is that a suicide bomber blew up a market place does not mean that it was an Iraqi who hates the new government. The government may not be the reason any of it took place. Any one of these groups may think that a kidnapping will show someone their power.
Dale,
Very true. Al-Qaeda has very successfully leveraged old Sunni-Shia wounds in Iraq.
They’re behind a significant number of the market bombings, mosque bombings, kidnappings etc…
There are also plenty of common thugs involved in these events, some are just trying to build a power base. None of them benefit Iraq as a nation.
Ahhh the difference between the insurgents and the citizens, in Iraq, is that the insurgents are not always comprised of disgruntled Iraqis and they don’t want to see Iraq become a better place for most of the reasons outlined by Dale. Another issue with the insurgents is that each group of insurgents has their own end goal so it’s much like going to war with Medusa’s head of snakes. You can cut one off but there’s still another one there to deal with.
I am very interested to see Israel wage it’s current campaign, as they are not going to be waging a political war aimed to appease the masses. Although they will do what they can to minimize any collateral damage, they are waging the war to win irregardless of public opinion and outside political pressure. You can only pull the tiger’s tail so many times before you are face to face with him.
Trevor, my point in bringing up Iraq was to point out that it is very difficult for a foreign power to defeat a native militia…history is full of such failures (us in Vietnam, the French in Algeria, etc. etc). I did not mean to compare the Iraqi insurgents to Hezbollah. The Iraqi insurgents are a grab bag of different groups from what I can tell, with differing agendas, ranging from bringing down the Iraqi government, getting rid of the Americans, or just exacting revenge. Whereas Hezbollah in comparison is a large force that has built coalitions, has seats in Parliament, has the backing of more than a million Shia Muslims in Lebanon, and isn’t likely to get into any open conflict with the weak Lebanese government which won’t confront it either because Hezbollah is the only force that seems able and willing to stand up to Israel, which wins it support from across the Arab and Muslim worlds and among non-Shia Lebanese…
It is worth remembering that Hezbollah grew out of resistance to the Israeli occupation of southern Lebanon, and occupation which supposedly was for defensive reasons but actually was not (you can read the article from Uri Avnery I posted on my blog if you want to know more).
Israel seems intent on repeating history…their last invasion/occupation of Lebanon was a disaster that created Hezbollah…I wonder what this current crisis will create?
Hezbollah has had plenty of opportunities to negotiate at a table instead of via kidnappings and terrorist attacks. So has Hamas.
I’m not sure what they think they’re going to achieve except more death.
The occupation of Southern Lebanon ended six years ago from my understanding. Yet Hezbollah continues attacking from across the border. What would you have the Isrealis do? Quietly line up all the Jews and march them into the sea?
One sign of weakness by Isreal would mean its extinction.
I went and read that blog entry you mentioned Elizabeth. Lebanon already has a “puppet government,” but it is Syria that controls it, not Isreal.
It certainly seems in Isreal’s best interest to have a government friendly to Isreal next door, so I can buy that they might WANT to install a puppet government, however wrong that might be. Isreal is certainly no different from other governments in the region when it comes to trying to manipulate neighbors in their self-interest.
The Arab “brotherhood” should step forward and call for a cease fire and rational dialogue instead of spouting more of its constant anti-Zionist talk. What’s a Zionist anyhow? Is that a secular Jew or an ultra Orthodox Jew, or will any old Jew do when it comes to dropping that label?
Was that young corporal who was kidnapped a Zionist? Perhaps he deserves to die for fufilling his mandatory service obligation in the evil Zionist empire?
Trevor, Hamas said it was willing to negotiate with Israel–it was Israel that wasn’t interested.
Do you realize that sometimes you repeat, word for word, Israeli government propaganda phrases?
How is it that you don’t know what a zionist is? A zionist is not a jew. Trevor, until you learn some basic terminology and facts, I suggest not opinionating too much about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
http://wikipedia.org/wiki/zionism, though from Encyclopedia Wikipedia, has a description of Zionism with enough links that are bound to lead to some truth from someone’s perspective.
I can appreciate why Isreal (sic) has been unwilling to negotiate with Hamas. The starting point for the proposed negotiations is completely unacceptable. Hamas only wants to preserve its international source of income without recognizing Israel’s right to exist.
The Middle East pot is boiling aggressively. There are no moderates left on either side (or any side). The game is brinksmanship. All are playing. All will likely lose. What does Hamas, Hezbollah, Al Qaeda, Syria, Lebanon, and Iran have to lose? Nothing.
What does Israel and the US have to lose? Nothing.
Now we wait for one side to claim the other has committed an egregious act and to escalate by adding one more straw to the camel’s back that will break it completely.
Should be a full out regional war by Christmas next year. Can the US keep Egypt out of it? How about Jordan? Will Turkey take this opportunity to settle its issues with Kurds? Will China’s thirst for oil stimulate them to send troops into Iran to protect the oil fields? Will Russia send troops to the Caspian Sea area to protect their interests from wandering foreign forces? Will America’s Religious Right see this regional ME war as end times prophecy being fulfilled?
What could possibly be more exciting than the run up to a fullscale Middle East war? At that time we will find out if the Bush Administration has prepared America sufficiently for terrorist attacks in the US.
Elizabeth,
Conversely, you sound like you’re being faxed the Hamas and Hezbollah talking points and repeating those verbatim every time you comment on the topic of Isreal/Palestine/Middle East.
Dad,
Thanks for the Zionism definition
I already knew what it was. My problem with the term is that it’s overused by radical Muslims and folks who support them like Elizabeth.
The term Zionist when used by Elizabeth and her ilk is like the term cracker when used by a racist black American. It’s got an undertone that feels a lot like blanket hatred.
Isrealis have a right to their ancestral homeland. Isreal is a melting pot of people from all over the world. It’s a much more tolerant society when it comes to personal freedoms than its neighbors.
Isreal has a right to self-defense, just as Palestine does. The actions of both nations are quite open to intrepretation, just as the U.S. and British invasion of Iraq is open to intrepretation and discussion. But throwing out the term Zionist over and over robs it of any meaning.
Am I a Zionist because I support Isreal’s right to exist and defend her borders? If so, what does that mean? Should I be kidnapped? Murdered? Am I fair game for the Islamic crusaders who blow up buses as a means of “advancing” their cause?
Certainly Isreal makes bad policy decisions and military mistakes. And those are open to criticism and debate. It’s much easier to criticize and condemn the actions of Palestinian and other Arab terrorists because they flaunt their willingness and intent to destroy the nation of Isreal and they constantly remind us they will accept nothing less than pushing the Jews into the sea. Until they change their position on destoying Isreal as a nation, there really isn’t any room for discussion.
Dale,
I’m not excited by the prospect of an all out regional conflict and I hope that rational voices prevail. The dead can no longer speak, or be excited, or cry, or add much to our existence on this plane of reality.
I want to affirm life and love and human choices. It’s hard when we live in such a mixed up world full of angry aggressive people who spew the rhetoric of hatred and teach it to their children.
Trevor, I resent your slander. I find it ironic that you are subtly accusing me of racism, considering some of the company you keep…
Trevor, did you know that I am half Jewish?
Have you ever been to Israel?
Have you ever been to Palestine?
Have you ever been to Lebanon?
For someone who doesn’t seem to have a clear grasp of events, facts, and the major actors, you certainly have a lot of opinions.
It’s ironic that you just wrote a post about how foreign students are outdoing US students in universities and how arrogant Americans are.
Elizabeth,
I had certainly guessed you might be Jewish from your last name. Doesn\\\’t change my perception of your viewpoints on Isreal/Palestine. I don\’t necessarily believe you are racist – I was just doing what you did in an earlier post when you said this:
You were trying to establish some sort of guilt by association. I merely used the same technique you used in a different argument. I see it irritated you too.
I\’ve never been to Palestine, Lebanon or Isreal and you\’ve never been to Iraq that I\’m aware of, yet we both maintain opinions on the situations in those places.
Who says I don\’t have a clear grasp of what\’s happening? What makes my grasp of the facts any less valid or informed than yours?
Life is full of irony.
Trevor, I don’t claim to be any kind of authority on what’s going on in Iraq…that’s one reason why I read the military blogs. I wish you guys would spend more time describing what exactly it is that you are seeing there, and less time on other subjects about which you are less informed.
By the way, when did I use the term zionist and in what context?
Oh, I just found out your house in Georgia is actually on my ancestral homeland…I’ll give your wife 24 hours to pack up. Don’t worry, I’ve found a refugee camp in Mexico that’s willing to take you.
Good luck with your claim on my home Elizabeth, I have a legal deed and the power of the law to back me up. Oh, and there’s the bank the holds the mortgage note too. You probably wouldn’t want to mess with them.
I realize you were being sarcastic and so was I.
I find it surprising that you don’t remember using the term Zionist. It was in one of your earliest posts here. I don’t have time to search, but unless I’m confusing you with another commenter, I am fairly certain you used it in reference to the Isreali government.
Of course, I could be wrong. I often am.
“Good luck with your claim on my home Elizabeth, I have a legal deed and the power of the law to back me up”
Good for you. Having these things didn’t help the Palestinians in 1948. Sometimes, being in the right doesn’t get you anywhere. Sometimes, no one enforces the law. Let’s hope we are never invaded the way Palestine was, and we get to keep our homes.
By the way, Trevor, did you know polls consistently show that most Palestinians are in favor of a two-state solution? No, of course you didn’t. It’s easier to repeat a catchphrase you heard on talk radio than to learn facts.
I know I’m being mean to you, Trevor, but you deserve it.
By the way, I just found out about an interesting cultural exchange program:
http://sabbah.biz/mt/archives/2006/07/17/photo-of-the-day-israeli-kids-sends-gifts-of-love-to-arab-kids/
Elizabeth,
Congratulations on finding pictures of Isrealis engaged in immature behavior. I can find you plenty of pictures of Palestinian children dressed as suicide bombers and we can go back and forth and never make any progress if you want.
I’d prefer to hear your ideas on how two-state solution can actually work. Since you are so much more informed than everyone else please tell me and others who visit – what things specifically does Isreal need to do that it hasn’t already done? And then give me the list for Palestine…
This conversation has devolved to being completely unproductive for both of us, and that’s sad.
Trevor, when I have time on Thursday, I will post something on my blog in response to your suggestion.