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	<title>Comments on: McCain doesn&#8217;t have a chance in hell of winning</title>
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	<link>http://willtoexist.com/mccain-chance-hell-winning_1424/</link>
	<description>scribblings from a deist transhumanist libertarian minarchist citizen soldier</description>
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		<title>By: Coralie Solange</title>
		<link>http://willtoexist.com/mccain-chance-hell-winning_1424/comment-page-1/#comment-246560</link>
		<dc:creator>Coralie Solange</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Jul 2008 13:42:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://willtoexist.com/?p=1424#comment-246560</guid>
		<description>Trevor, you forgot to mention that the government coerces employers into acting as tax collector.  That one really gets me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Trevor, you forgot to mention that the government coerces employers into acting as tax collector.  That one really gets me.</p>
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		<title>By: Trevor</title>
		<link>http://willtoexist.com/mccain-chance-hell-winning_1424/comment-page-1/#comment-246541</link>
		<dc:creator>Trevor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Jul 2008 02:45:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://willtoexist.com/?p=1424#comment-246541</guid>
		<description>Chamberlin,

Yes, I am a libertarian. Just take away the capital L. I&#039;m also a deist, transhumanist, and a citizen soldier. There are some other labels you could throw my way if you wanted. Just don&#039;t call me a Republican :)

In my experience, government does everything by gunpoint. If they didn&#039;t then why bother threatening me with financial extortion and jail time if anything is misrepresented on my college loan application. Why is government even involved in that process? Obama will offer me more of these type of forms, wherein I&#039;m forced to sign myself over as an indentured servant to get anything done in life.

That&#039;s mostly how I see it.

As far as Obama not using force to implement his programs I respectfully disagree. All government programs operate via the monopoly on force. I should know since I carry a gun on behalf of government - Georgia National Guard member.

Think of this - to get a student loan in this country you have to fill out a FAFSA (Federal application for student aid). To get the money, I have to sign a document that threatens me with financial extortion and jail time (implemented by force) if I misrepresent anything on the form. The form is mostly useless information the government already has on file. Why is this threatening process necessary?

What will Obama do to mitigate the threats of force in the fine print at the bottom of almost every federal form I&#039;ve ever filled out?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chamberlin,</p>
<p>Yes, I am a libertarian. Just take away the capital L. I&#8217;m also a deist, transhumanist, and a citizen soldier. There are some other labels you could throw my way if you wanted. Just don&#8217;t call me a Republican <img src='http://willtoexist.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>In my experience, government does everything by gunpoint. If they didn&#8217;t then why bother threatening me with financial extortion and jail time if anything is misrepresented on my college loan application. Why is government even involved in that process? Obama will offer me more of these type of forms, wherein I&#8217;m forced to sign myself over as an indentured servant to get anything done in life.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s mostly how I see it.</p>
<p>As far as Obama not using force to implement his programs I respectfully disagree. All government programs operate via the monopoly on force. I should know since I carry a gun on behalf of government &#8211; Georgia National Guard member.</p>
<p>Think of this &#8211; to get a student loan in this country you have to fill out a FAFSA (Federal application for student aid). To get the money, I have to sign a document that threatens me with financial extortion and jail time (implemented by force) if I misrepresent anything on the form. The form is mostly useless information the government already has on file. Why is this threatening process necessary?</p>
<p>What will Obama do to mitigate the threats of force in the fine print at the bottom of almost every federal form I&#8217;ve ever filled out?</p>
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		<title>By: Coralie Solange</title>
		<link>http://willtoexist.com/mccain-chance-hell-winning_1424/comment-page-1/#comment-246540</link>
		<dc:creator>Coralie Solange</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Jul 2008 01:08:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://willtoexist.com/?p=1424#comment-246540</guid>
		<description>Chamberlin,

#5: Bingo!

I&#039;m not going to pretend to speak for Trevor, but coming from a similar mindset as him I will speak to my own view of the situation. Public school is middle class welfare, plain and simple. It&#039;s forcing those who don&#039;t have children to subsidize the education of others&#039; children--others who, perhaps, do deserve a break, but who also wouldn&#039;t generally need the middle class welfare were they not being taxed out the butt to fund wars, bureaucracy and more of the welfare state. In other words, shouldn&#039;t the break that they deserve come in the form of a much smaller, sustainable government instead of at the expense of the rest of society?  Also, this is where Trevor speaks specifically about Obama&#039;s policy (or lack thereof). http://willtoexist.com/ready-obamanomics_1415/

PS~Why is it always about the roads?  I&#039;m so sick of hearing how we&#039;d have no roads without the government! If the government just magically ceased to exist, I assure you that intelligent as we are, we&#039;d find a way to get from point a to point b.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chamberlin,</p>
<p>#5: Bingo!</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not going to pretend to speak for Trevor, but coming from a similar mindset as him I will speak to my own view of the situation. Public school is middle class welfare, plain and simple. It&#8217;s forcing those who don&#8217;t have children to subsidize the education of others&#8217; children&#8211;others who, perhaps, do deserve a break, but who also wouldn&#8217;t generally need the middle class welfare were they not being taxed out the butt to fund wars, bureaucracy and more of the welfare state. In other words, shouldn&#8217;t the break that they deserve come in the form of a much smaller, sustainable government instead of at the expense of the rest of society?  Also, this is where Trevor speaks specifically about Obama&#8217;s policy (or lack thereof). <a href="http://willtoexist.com/ready-obamanomics_1415/" rel="nofollow">http://willtoexist.com/ready-obamanomics_1415/</a></p>
<p>PS~Why is it always about the roads?  I&#8217;m so sick of hearing how we&#8217;d have no roads without the government! If the government just magically ceased to exist, I assure you that intelligent as we are, we&#8217;d find a way to get from point a to point b.</p>
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		<title>By: kitanis</title>
		<link>http://willtoexist.com/mccain-chance-hell-winning_1424/comment-page-1/#comment-246539</link>
		<dc:creator>kitanis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jul 2008 21:28:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://willtoexist.com/?p=1424#comment-246539</guid>
		<description>Chamberlin
&quot;When I read “private sector” I think corporations.  So its either the government or the corporations that handle the building blocks of our society.  I can understand why the government hasn’t earned your respect and trust - a lot of times, I don’t trust it either but I trust corporations much much less.  Look at the average salary of a corporate CEO and how much it has increased over the past ten years. Imagine having to pay a higher toll on a road because some executive retired and they gave him a $100 million golden parachute.&quot;
Please..  understand me.  I can see that the liberal left use Corporations debate as the evil boogey man to convince the left leaning people and the poor that without government, we would be in Chaos.
When I worked as a civil servant in a government agency, I had a co-worker who went out of her way to tell me a Corporation horror story, took me two months to figure out that she got these news bits word for word from Air America radio and ABC news.
I agree that CEO pay is out of control..  I got into a very heated discussion in my buisness ethics class in school last year with my teacher about it.   But TRY as I might.. I can find nothing in our Constition that every elected official swears to protect and follow where it says that its the responsibility to of the Federal Government to control or limit a corporation from doing its day to day buisness.  Government can derive taxes from that corporation as it dose its buisness.. thats it.  The CEO Pay problem is something that the INVESTORS and the Board of Directors of a corporation needs to fix.. But human nature and apathy are a very strong emotion.  Somehow the larger corporations has started this process of attracting CEO&#039;s by offering them extreme ammounts of money and stock options to people to run their companies.. some into the ground.  Only a couple from Enron get their just deserts in this.. and one of them died from natural causes before the government could throw him into the prison.
But that dose not relate to saying that we must elect a soclialist or democrat to control corporations via government.  Look at our democrat controled house and senate have done now.. Both the Republicans and Democrats have spent more and more money than we take in.. and then blaim each other.  Too me, that is WORSE than some guy who gets alot of money to be a CEO because they are spending money from the taxpayers pockets, not the profits from a buisness.  I blaim the House and Senate for MUCH of what is happening nowdays more than Bush Sr, Bill Clinton, or Bush, Jr have done.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chamberlin<br />
&#8220;When I read “private sector” I think corporations.  So its either the government or the corporations that handle the building blocks of our society.  I can understand why the government hasn’t earned your respect and trust &#8211; a lot of times, I don’t trust it either but I trust corporations much much less.  Look at the average salary of a corporate CEO and how much it has increased over the past ten years. Imagine having to pay a higher toll on a road because some executive retired and they gave him a $100 million golden parachute.&#8221;<br />
Please..  understand me.  I can see that the liberal left use Corporations debate as the evil boogey man to convince the left leaning people and the poor that without government, we would be in Chaos.<br />
When I worked as a civil servant in a government agency, I had a co-worker who went out of her way to tell me a Corporation horror story, took me two months to figure out that she got these news bits word for word from Air America radio and ABC news.<br />
I agree that CEO pay is out of control..  I got into a very heated discussion in my buisness ethics class in school last year with my teacher about it.   But TRY as I might.. I can find nothing in our Constition that every elected official swears to protect and follow where it says that its the responsibility to of the Federal Government to control or limit a corporation from doing its day to day buisness.  Government can derive taxes from that corporation as it dose its buisness.. thats it.  The CEO Pay problem is something that the INVESTORS and the Board of Directors of a corporation needs to fix.. But human nature and apathy are a very strong emotion.  Somehow the larger corporations has started this process of attracting CEO&#8217;s by offering them extreme ammounts of money and stock options to people to run their companies.. some into the ground.  Only a couple from Enron get their just deserts in this.. and one of them died from natural causes before the government could throw him into the prison.<br />
But that dose not relate to saying that we must elect a soclialist or democrat to control corporations via government.  Look at our democrat controled house and senate have done now.. Both the Republicans and Democrats have spent more and more money than we take in.. and then blaim each other.  Too me, that is WORSE than some guy who gets alot of money to be a CEO because they are spending money from the taxpayers pockets, not the profits from a buisness.  I blaim the House and Senate for MUCH of what is happening nowdays more than Bush Sr, Bill Clinton, or Bush, Jr have done.</p>
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		<title>By: Chamberlin</title>
		<link>http://willtoexist.com/mccain-chance-hell-winning_1424/comment-page-1/#comment-246537</link>
		<dc:creator>Chamberlin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jul 2008 20:48:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://willtoexist.com/?p=1424#comment-246537</guid>
		<description>Aha...

I&#039;ve painted you with the red paintbrush of the GOP.  I do apologize for that.  I arrived at your blog post directly via StumbleUpon so I wasn&#039;t familiar with the rest of the blog. 

My responses:
1.  Gotcha
2.  Gotcha
3.  Yep
4.  I was asserting that the GOP had been using these tactics, not you. 
5.  Are you a Libertarian?  

I don&#039;t think he thinks government is the best solution to every social ill in the country and will do it by gunpoint, not even speaking figuratively.  Don&#039;t you think that assertion is a little absolute and extreme?  Don&#039;t confuse populist policies with socialism.

I fully support your vocalizing your feelings.  Please keep it up.  I can identify with what you are saying to some extent but I do think what you are asking for is unrealistic.  From what I&#039;m reading, you don&#039;t think you should have to pay taxes to a government that does things in a way that you disagree with.  The problem is, if the Federal government only collected taxes for those who support it fully, what would we have left?  I hate paying taxes to but I needed an education when growing up and I need roads to get from place to place.  Some things are more efficient (though not ideal) when made public.  Imagine if all of the roads were privately owned.  Would there be toll booths everywhere?  Imagine if all of the schools were private... Think of all of the people whose kids would be without an education and the problems that would bring.  Some might say &quot;well if they can&#039;t afford the private school for their kids, screw &#039;em - that&#039;s their fault&quot;.  The problem is, this will be the case for a fairly large portion of the population - not everyone can be wealthy enough to afford private schools and you will have to share the country with a lot of uneducated people.

When I read &quot;private sector&quot; I think corporations.  So its either the government or the corporations that handle the building blocks of our society.  I can understand why the government hasn&#039;t earned your respect and trust - a lot of times, I don&#039;t trust it either but I trust corporations much much less.  Look at the average salary of a corporate CEO and how much it has increased over the past ten years. Imagine having to pay a higher toll on a road because some executive retired and they gave him a $100 million golden parachute.

It seems to me that as voters, we have to choose whether our society is run by an elected body - the government or the corporations - which we &quot;elect&quot; via our purchasing dollar.  I&#039;ll never be comfortable with having corps run everything so my vote goes to the candidate who best intends to run it to benefit the people.  The Republicans, whom I know you don&#039;t count yourself as among, have made it pretty clear that they think the less accountable the corporations are, the better.  The Democrats (and Obama) have their faults too but I think they stand for you and I a lot more than the Republicans.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Aha&#8230;</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve painted you with the red paintbrush of the GOP.  I do apologize for that.  I arrived at your blog post directly via StumbleUpon so I wasn&#8217;t familiar with the rest of the blog. </p>
<p>My responses:<br />
1.  Gotcha<br />
2.  Gotcha<br />
3.  Yep<br />
4.  I was asserting that the GOP had been using these tactics, not you.<br />
5.  Are you a Libertarian?  </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think he thinks government is the best solution to every social ill in the country and will do it by gunpoint, not even speaking figuratively.  Don&#8217;t you think that assertion is a little absolute and extreme?  Don&#8217;t confuse populist policies with socialism.</p>
<p>I fully support your vocalizing your feelings.  Please keep it up.  I can identify with what you are saying to some extent but I do think what you are asking for is unrealistic.  From what I&#8217;m reading, you don&#8217;t think you should have to pay taxes to a government that does things in a way that you disagree with.  The problem is, if the Federal government only collected taxes for those who support it fully, what would we have left?  I hate paying taxes to but I needed an education when growing up and I need roads to get from place to place.  Some things are more efficient (though not ideal) when made public.  Imagine if all of the roads were privately owned.  Would there be toll booths everywhere?  Imagine if all of the schools were private&#8230; Think of all of the people whose kids would be without an education and the problems that would bring.  Some might say &#8220;well if they can&#8217;t afford the private school for their kids, screw &#8216;em &#8211; that&#8217;s their fault&#8221;.  The problem is, this will be the case for a fairly large portion of the population &#8211; not everyone can be wealthy enough to afford private schools and you will have to share the country with a lot of uneducated people.</p>
<p>When I read &#8220;private sector&#8221; I think corporations.  So its either the government or the corporations that handle the building blocks of our society.  I can understand why the government hasn&#8217;t earned your respect and trust &#8211; a lot of times, I don&#8217;t trust it either but I trust corporations much much less.  Look at the average salary of a corporate CEO and how much it has increased over the past ten years. Imagine having to pay a higher toll on a road because some executive retired and they gave him a $100 million golden parachute.</p>
<p>It seems to me that as voters, we have to choose whether our society is run by an elected body &#8211; the government or the corporations &#8211; which we &#8220;elect&#8221; via our purchasing dollar.  I&#8217;ll never be comfortable with having corps run everything so my vote goes to the candidate who best intends to run it to benefit the people.  The Republicans, whom I know you don&#8217;t count yourself as among, have made it pretty clear that they think the less accountable the corporations are, the better.  The Democrats (and Obama) have their faults too but I think they stand for you and I a lot more than the Republicans.</p>
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